From You Should Probably Know.
“On the night of December 6, while concerned friends and neighbors met to discuss ways to help a local homeownwer save her house, the pictured individuals came to try and stop us. They are two undercover police officers from the St. Louis Police Department. They came half-way through the meeting and stood in the corner (not saying a word), simply spying on the meeting and the people at it. After a while they went outside to hold signs.
Dear Police, YOU FAILED! STAY AWAY FROM US!
Our motivation for releasing this information is to let others know about these particular individuals, that the tactic of infiltration for purposes of information gathering is actively being used by the St. Louis Police Department, and that this behavior fits into the general role of the police in regards to liberating social movements.
As those of us who participated in occupy or have been inspired by it branch out to different fields and tactics of struggle (the reclamation and defense of space, the blockading of capitalist infrastructure, etc.) we will need to remember the role of police in trying to control, weaken and stop us. Whether in uniform, undercover or in our own heads, we must try our hardest not to listen to the voice of nor be observed by the ears and eyes of the State. Knowing that this is impossible to stop completely, we must also find ways to continue to organize publicly without succumbing to total paranoia and suspicion.
For a world that’s cop free. For revolutionary trust.”
If that picture does him justice they look similar but it’s not the same guy.
We “have done this for long now”? Please. Social movements don’t follow the same timeline as celebrity marriages. 3 months is the beginning of a beginning.
some people on facebook are saying that the undercover cop on the left in the photo above is the same cop in uniform at 2:28 in this video of the second kiener plaza eviction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK-ckDRV3U0#t=2m26s
here’s a screenshot from that video:
what do people think?
this post got lots of flac from internet occupiers and supporters over on occupy stl’s facebook. the resistance relies on 2 dumb-shit beliefs.
1. that undercover cops, who lied about being cops and haven’t participated in a single occupy event, expect to either spy, evict, or threaten participants, are actually supporters of the movement!
2. that we need be a non-violent all inclusive movement. thus we should include the cops-who’s job description includes putting people in cages, intimidating, evicting, beating, and murdering, trapping people in the court and prison systems, and even get people executed- into our non-violent movement, the very moment they are tasked with marginalizing and destroying!
ACAB
okay officer
Its funny how they got away with it for 3 weeks. Its also amazing how you guys hate all cops for doing their jobs. You close down streets, banks, ports, etc to try and make a point and dont relize how the majority of people are sick of listening to you people and what you do. You have done this for long now and what have you accomplished. You get arrested and you blame the cops, yewst your the one ion the wrong and breaking the law. When you or your family are in need of assistance, lets hope their are cops around to help and protect you. Because the police officers leave their family each and every day and they have know Idea if they will see them again. Its funny how the criminals are the only people that hate COPS.
“I am willing …
…. to give you a brief moment …
… of peace.”
It’s more of a shame that you are willing to tarnish MLK’s name by using a quote to further your agenda. It’s shameful when someone tries to encapsulate a historical figure in a quote, and uses the quote to put down folks by appealing to said figure (MLK). It really shows a true lack of independent thought.
The movement MLK was a PART of had lots of differing perspectives. Funny enough, MLK was investigated by the FBI and the police for the things he agitated for. You appeal to an authority to justify your position, and make it seem like it’s unquestionable to go against said authority. “Shame, shame,” you say, pointing guilt at those who go against you. Your position seems weak and self-centered.
One-off quotes and appeals to fictitious authority are not the way forward.
It’s my understanding that the people who figured out they were police, asked that they not have to reveal the precise way they did so. I assume that means that the undercovers slipped up some how – either they were recognized by someone who knew them and knew they were police, maybe they drove back to the police station when they were done, who knows. If it’s explained exactly how they slipped up, it makes the police know not to make that mistake again, and it makes it that much harder to definitively detect and oust them.
It’s my understanding that they have definitive evidence, and that this goes much farther than “Hey that guys built like a cop.” Or “that guy said the wrong thing.” I know it’s shitty to just have to take someone’s word on it, and cop- and snitch-jacketing are terrible accusations to make lightly. I believe they were cops and I trust the people who outed them.
You provided zero evidence that they were cops. Maybe they were just awkwardly trying to feel out the movement for themselves, to try to join, to contribute, to fit in–instead, you post their pictures and call them ‘police scum’. Shame. How do you expect to really grow a movement when you’re becoming this suspicious, unwelcoming and insular? Shame on you.
You ought to heed the words of Martin Luther King, Jr. who counseled openness: “One who breaks an unjust law must do so openly, lovingly, and with a willingness to accept the penalty. I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law.”
***Openly
***Lovingly
***With a willingness to accept the penalty
King’s bravery garnered respect and support.
One-off pranks and paranoia are not the way forward.
I hope you guys get better at this.
I do not want police in any meetings that I am at. It might seem like a novel idea, but we are not interacting people who can’t afford to be open to ideas that challenge the power of the State and capitalism. They have a job and that is to uphold the law. They might be sympathetic, as an individual, but their job INHERENTLY precludes them from actually being on our side. Some of these police might side with us, but if they remain police, they should be seen as an enemy.
This was a meeting to discuss ideas about resisting foreclosure and it seems tactically to our advantage to not have police know our ideas.
Uh. Fuck the police.
Gee, this should be expected. If these guys went outside and held signs, at least they tried to blend in, but they weren’t very good at their job were they, they got “burned” real quick….LOL You need to understand that any group that starts marching is going to get attention. And, it’s along the lines of public safety to ensure such a group is not so radical that they are planning on robbing a bank or blowing one up! Why don’t you invite a representative of the police department to your meeting? The best way to avoid all this is to be open with them, I’m sure there would be many aspects of your discussions that could be open to them.
At least you would know who was there and you could always run some things by that officer and get at least his/her opinion. Let’s say you want to do a flah rally at a local B of A branch. Bring it up in the Action Committee of where and go ahead and talk about in the GA, but the location would not be disclosed until just prior to the rally.
What scares “authorities” is the unknown. Cooperate, show them that you have no illegal activities planned, that you are totally non-violent and much of the fear will go away.
Actually, if you do this and you have a few cops that want to knock heads, you’ll have a much better position to approach the police adminstration with since you were open with them and their tactics could easily change that relationship….I guarantee it will affect how they deal with you.
Another story they told was that all they wanted to do was come and hold signs they’d made in support of resisting the foreclosure. You can see them holding the signs in the picture, but the signs were at the meeting a good two hours before they were.
This also isn’t evidence they were police, but since we know they are it’s evidence of what a horrible job they did being undercover. I mean, they apparently got training in it, and excelled so much that they’re getting paid to do it, but they suck at it.
COP FAIL.
No. They repeatedly gave different people explanations as to who they were and how they had found out about the meeting.
One of the stories the guy on the right told people was that he had lived in south county until eight months ago when his house was foreclosed on. He didn’t mention being a cop, the phone number he gave doesn’t work and the name he gave was probably fake. He probably wasn’t foreclosed on either, and it would be only too nice if he actually had something that bad happen to him (given that he’s being paid to derail a community’s attempt to save someone’s home). I mention these things not as proof of him being a police officer, but to show that they did anything but explain themselves as off-duty police who wanted to help.
It’s really upsetting that people have gotten it into their heads that police help and secretly support social movements. That has pretty much never been their role in them. Police are the ones clearing occupations, arresting, brutalizing or even nicely ending our attempts at freedom, but *ending them nonetheless.* I’ve heard so many stories of how police with tears in their eyes cleared kierner plaza, or told people they were arresting that they were sorry they had to do it, and that they were coming back as soon as they were off-duty to show their support. Well, guess what? To my knowledge the only ones so far to show up out of uniform have been these two guys, and they weren’t here to support us. They were sent to gather information to be used against us, and as a way for police to pre-emptively plan how to stop us from saving someone’s home.
Even if police did realize they’d made a mistake by following the orders of the ruling class, I wouldn’t be comfortable with having them in our midst.
An excellent piece handed out, read and discussed during the first week of OccupyStl concerning police.
http://antistatestl.wordpress.com/texts/viopol/
Because after all there must be a “correct and un-awkward” way to hold signs! Foolish, unmotivated people that think the Police are there to infiltrate and do anything other than their jobs…
They couldn’t have possibly held signs more awkwardly. It was ridiculous. Thank you for publicly posting this.
Do you think maybe these two cops wern’t spying but actually there to support?